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28 May 2014 @ 07:01 pm
Making my icon unfortunately true  
So the thing about the shootings in CA and the resulting twitter stuff that is bothering me (aside from the obvious) is this: I'm lucky enough, because of my job, hermit-y nature, and the people I choose to hang out with, that I don't often come across in person, the asshole attitudes of MRAs or "Not all Men" dudes. The dudes I most often come into contact with are the decent sort, who are quick to express disapproval when hearing about misogyny and sexism.

You know what? Fuck those men too.

I know a lot of dudes who consider themselves feminist to some degree and against misogyny and sexism (um, like any decent human being should, you don't get a cookie), but I have very rarely seen a dude call out another dude for casual misogyny and sexism in public.

Like, I don't give a fuck if you agree that sexism is wrong and are 100% willing to tell me, *after* the party, in private, or in our group of sympathetic friends, that what that other dude said is fucked up. I'm not asking you to like, march in a parade or chain yourself to something or volunteer at a women's center, because it's not like I'm a hardcore activist myself. But I am willing to actually say "Wow, that's offensive and not funny" instead of laughing politely, even if it makes me look awkward, even if it makes me uncomfortable. Because the sad truth is, when a women protests that sort of comment, it gets brushed off and ignored as "oversensitive" or "feminazi" in a way that doesn't happen when it's dude to dude. It has to be peer to peer. Men that don't say anything or laugh uncomfortably are contributing to the culture that says this shit is okay.

It's the exact same thing with racism and white people, except that people usually wait until they're in what they think is an all-white group to make those comments. I'm lucky in that I have the double edged sword of looking white but not really being it, so I have more at my disposal, but it's really not that hard. (And truthfully, because it counts more coming from a "white" person so I usually don't mention my heritage unless they're being total assholes and I want to see their eyes widen as they desperate try to backtrack) Like, I don't do it every single time, and occasionally I'm a coward. But I do it most of the time. I realize that if I don't put myself out there and call it out, chances are no one is going to, and is it really so important to save myself 10 seconds of awkwardness?

So why don't so many dudes.

...I almost started this post "Not to rag on all men" but then realized, wtf, I'll rag on men if I want to.

(To my few male friends who I have seen call this shit out, you are rockstars and the fucking best)

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kt: buffy sand walkinggleeful_t on May 31st, 2014 05:43 pm (UTC)
YES! THIS!

When I was younger it was even difficult to know how to shut down misogynist comments-- so often the perpetrators *do* make it about you-- you're being "overly sensitive" or "too PC" or even a "bitch feminazi." They make you feel like the rude one, because you've made them uncomfortable.

Never forget that they've made you uncomfortable by taking away your humanity, or the humanity of someone else, first.

I've found my favorite way to act is to make them play ball in my world, the world where that stuff is horrible to say across the board. I treat them as though they've said something incredibly rude-- because they have. I'll even go so far as to say "that was terribly rude." This has become my favorite way because in my limited experience, (and we are talking about a verbal conversation among acquaintances or even friends, not verbal harassment from a stranger), it's amazing how much this catches them off guard. It's amazing how much someone won't care if they "aren't PC"-- some people even value that. But when they're seen as rude. There's like a culturally ingrained need to apologize and feel guilt or remorse. And I like using that shit to my advantage.

Again, my personal and privileged experience, but it might work for someone else and make you feel a little safer. It's using the safe constructs of socialization to your advantage, and not letting someone use them against you.
Circe: Cute Feminismredcirce on June 4th, 2014 04:45 am (UTC)
Yeah, I cared a lot what other people thought when I was younger, but now that I'm old I really don't care, which is awesome! It's one of the best parts of growing up, IMO.

Huh, that's a neat strategy and I've never tried it! I'm going to try that next time, and report back on how it works! It's interesting how when you're in a group, the social construct is really there, and the shame factor is really there. I've found that calling out is most effective for me not when I get really angry/worked up, but when I just act calm and incredibly disdainful. Like, if they get a rise out of you with an asshole comment, they seem to like it, but if you treat them like they're just stupid and unfunny and not worth their attention they cringe a bit.
julesjulesndairyland on June 1st, 2014 07:52 pm (UTC)
"Like, I don't give a fuck if you agree that sexism is wrong and are 100% willing to tell me, *after* the party, in private, or in our group of sympathetic friends, that what that other dude said is fucked up."

*word* - If you are an ally then your job is to stand up LOUD & PROUD, not after the fact. You take on your colleagues and name their craps and call them on it. So the oppressed person doesn't have to.
Circe: Cute Feminismredcirce on June 4th, 2014 03:30 am (UTC)
Seriously, I feel like this is like one of the most important jobs of an ally, and so few people actually do it ugh why.

People love to say things like "Well, *I'm* not a racist/whatever!" and then completely ignore how they are complicit in their silence when issues come up and they don't say anything. :P
julesjulesndairyland on June 4th, 2014 04:30 am (UTC)
I take my Allyhood seriously. ;)

And I'm honest with my framily that it's *not* easy always interrupting stupid, oppressive stuff. But you gotta do it.